{"id":3052,"date":"2013-07-22T09:48:47","date_gmt":"2013-07-22T15:48:47","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/stallioncornell.com\/?p=3052"},"modified":"2013-07-22T09:48:47","modified_gmt":"2013-07-22T15:48:47","slug":"a-conversation-with-mike-morton","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/stallioncornell.com\/blog\/a-conversation-with-mike-morton\/","title":{"rendered":"A Conversation with Mike Norton"},"content":{"rendered":"

Mike Norton, AKA “NewNameNoah,” the temple cinematographer I made reference to in yesterday’s post<\/a>, has found me out! This morning, he commented on what I wrote, and, as I was preparing a response in the comments section, I thought it might be a good idea to bring this to the front page. After having bashed him in absentia yesterday, it seems only appropriate that I give him a broader forum for his response.<\/p>\n

Mike’s comments are in green, the color of life. Mine are in black, the color of darkness.<\/p>\n

Jim, apparently I \u201cdared\u201d you to call me. Let\u2019s state the facts now.<\/span><\/p>\n

Yes, let’s! I’m impressed that you found me, sir. I’d be thrilled to know this wasn’t your first time here. <\/span><\/p>\n

You posted the following comment on my \u201cBehind The Veil\u201d video under the pseudonym \u201cJim Gloober\u201d, \u201cClearly those of you who \u201ccomment here on a regular basis\u201d are looking for an outlet for rage and hatred that makes this a place where we Mormons are going to be treated with disdain. I simply submit that any who think such hatred is either Christian or intellectually constructive may want to recognize that it is neither. As for me, I have no interest in returning to a place where I am so clearly despised. Live and be well.\u201d<\/span><\/p>\n

Yes. <\/span><\/p>\n

I responded with the following, \u201cJim Gloober, I\u2019m sorry that you feel like the comments here are filled with \u201crage and hatred\u201d and that we treat Mormons with \u201cdisdain.\u201d<\/span>
\n –<\/span>
\n I can assure you, nobody here \u201cdespises\u201d you. You simply haven\u2019t said enough to warrant being despised. Come back anytime or stay away for forever. It makes no difference to anyone here.<\/span>
\n –<\/span>
\n Feel free to call sometime if you desire the truth more than you desire the church to be true: (801) 971-8661<\/span>
\n –<\/span>
\n We hate the beliefs, not the believers.\u201d<\/span><\/p>\n

Does that sound like a \u201cdare\u201d?<\/span><\/p>\n

Sure. As per your invitation, I should only feel free to call “if [I] desire the truth more than [I] desire the church to be true.” The implication is that I would be too cowardly to call, because I couldn’t bear to have my erroneous assumptions challenged by the truth that you wield. I don’t think “dare” is a mischaracterization of that kind of challenge. <\/span><\/p>\n

The comments are still there in the video comments for anyone to verify that I didn\u2019t \u201cdare you\u201d to call me.<\/span><\/p>\n

And they’re now here, on the front page of my blog. As to their daring nature, that’s a subjective decision readers will have to make for themselves. In any case, I didn’t realize that the term “dare” was so loaded or inflammatory. <\/span><\/p>\n

You also states in this blog, \u201cMy favorite bit was a shot of an LDS temple\u2019s baptismal font, which is something that the LDS temple provides high-res pictures of same on their own web site.<\/span><\/p>\n

Behold! Secret Mormon things revealed \u2013 from the church\u2019s own website, no less!\u201d<\/span><\/p>\n

Reality: I don\u2019t use ANY \u201chigh-res pictures\u2026from the church\u2019s own website, no less\u201d in my video.<\/span><\/p>\n

And I never claimed you did. The picture I posted “from the church’s own website” was exactly that – a picture from the church’s own website. My point was that the shots of the baptismal font in your video don’t constitute any kind of scoop, given that the church posts such pictures on the web and in its literature. I thought it was clear from the context that the picture I posted yesterday didn’t come from one of your videos. If it wasn’t, I apologize for the confusion. If anyone else other than you took that as a claim that that picture came from your video, I’m happy to correct that misconception now.
\n<\/span>
\nIt was filmed entirely INSIDE two Mormon temples with a hidden camera and it shows the actual baptisms for the dead as well as footage from the super \u201csacred not secret\u201d temple endowment ceremony that, until now, nobody has ever witnessed outside of the temple.<\/span><\/p>\n

That would date your footage as being previous to the anti-Mormon films that were all the rage prior to the Internet’s creation, many of which included big chunks of the ceremony, if not the whole thing. The endowment has been published and broadcast by critics of the church in a variety of media as long as there has been media. Since the advent of the web, the temple ceremony has been all over the place and easily accessible. Are you suggesting that you are the first person to film the ceremony and reveal it to the public? That defies credulity. <\/span><\/p>\n

You then write, \u201cIn the age if the Internet, it\u2019s rather foolish to presume that the church has any capacity to hide any aspect of its practices or history from the world at large, so it always amazes me when people who hate the church, as they fixate on something that church does or did that they don\u2019t like, act like they\u2019ve uncovered something nobody else has ever seen or heard about. That was certainly the case with the purveyor of this particular video, who claimed all this stuff was \u201cnever before seen\u2026 until now!\u201d (Apparently, the guy doesn\u2019t watch a lot of Big Love.)\u201d<\/span><\/p>\n

Reality: I would hardly compare a three minute re-enactment of the temple endowment ceremony on a fictional television show to a 78 minutes video of the entire endowment ceremony (both the movie AND live versions) filmed inside working temples with a hidden camera. Nice way to steer attention away from my videos. \u201cNothing to see here folks. This is all from the church\u2019s own website folks. Show\u2019s ovah\u2026move along.\u201d<\/span><\/p>\n

Again, I never claim that the endowment can be found on the church’s website. For someone who insists that he’s only interested in facts, those are some pretty goofy words to be putting in my mouth. <\/span><\/p>\n

You then write, \u201cWell, I think there\u2019s quite a bit more evidence, both internal and external, than enemies of the church will admit. Didn\u2019t get a chance to say any of that, though \u2013 he tore through his spiel under the assumption that I\u2019d never heard such things before\u2026\u201d<\/span><\/p>\n

Reality: You asked me what caused me to leave the church and I asked you pointedly if you were aware of the Kinderhook plates. I didn\u2019t go into any detail about them because he said he was familiar with the story. I NEVER \u201cassume\u201d that Mormons who call me \u201chad never heard such things.\u201d<\/span><\/p>\n

Forgive me for making inferences about your assumptions that you didn’t explicitly state. I made those inferences based on the premise that you<\/em> had never heard of such things prior to your investigation of church history. As I recall, the Kinderhook Plates led you to Joseph Smith’s polygamy\/polyandry, and you, and subsequently your mother, were shocked and appalled by what you discovered, which led you to leave the church. Given your dare\/non-dare, as well as a private message where you claim that you had verifiable proof the Book of Mormon was a fraud, I assumed you thought yourself in possession of knowledge that I didn’t have. I don’t think my inference represents any brazen departure from logical reasoning. <\/span><\/p>\n

Jim writes, \u201d The oddest complaint he had, the only one which I have not, in fact, heard from anyone else, was that Gordon B. Hinckley wasn\u2019t a prophet because he didn\u2019t act like Moses coming down from Sinai when Larry King interviewed him.\u201d<\/span><\/p>\n

Reality: I told Jim that I was disappointed when Mormon Prophets, I used Hinckley as an example, waste opportunities like the Larry King interview to give half ass answers to the question, \u201cAre you a prophet of God?\u201d with answers like, \u201cI am sustained as such.\u201d WTF is THAT?!?!<\/span><\/p>\n

WTF indeed. I don’t see where I’ve mischaracterized you at all here. I had never heard the complaint that President Hinckley’s appearances on the Larry King show constituted prophetic disappointment, so I said so in my post. <\/span><\/p>\n

Jim, at least you were honest when you stated, \u201cI\u2019ve been accused, therefore, of not having an open mind on this subject. And I think there\u2019s more than a grain of truth to that.\u201d<\/span><\/p>\n

Not only do you not have an open mind, you also seems to have a poor memory and a tendency to blatantly lie about the facts of a conversation. <\/span><\/p>\n

“Blatantly lie?” Strong words indeed.<\/span><\/p>\n

To sum up your grievances with what I wrote, I characterized a confrontational challenge to call as a “dare,” and I posted a picture from LDS.org that you mistakenly claim was attributed to you when it was clearly not. I made a logical inference based on the context of our exchanges that you believed yourself to be in possession of information I had never heard before, and I claimed you were disappointed in Gordon B. Hinckley’s prophetic performance.<\/p>\n

Which one of those constitutes a lie, let alone a “blatant” one?<\/p>\n

I never \u201cdared you\u201d to call me but I WILL challenge you to allow my response to this inaccurate article to remain up. If you\u2019re going to lie about a conversation, at least allow the other party to tell the truth.<\/span><\/p>\n

Done. I’ll leave it to this blog’s readers to determine the veracity of both of our positions. <\/span><\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"MikeNorton, AKA \"NewNameNoah,\" the temple cinematographer I made reference to in yesterday's post<\/a>, has found me out! This morning, he commented on what I wrote, and, as I was preparing a response in the comments section, I thought it might be a good idea to bring this to the front page. After having bashed ... Read more<\/a>","protected":false},"author":1,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[],"tags":[],"class_list":["post-3052","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","hentry"],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/stallioncornell.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/3052","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/stallioncornell.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/stallioncornell.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/stallioncornell.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/1"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/stallioncornell.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=3052"}],"version-history":[{"count":0,"href":"https:\/\/stallioncornell.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/3052\/revisions"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/stallioncornell.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=3052"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/stallioncornell.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=3052"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/stallioncornell.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=3052"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}