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PostPosted: Fri Aug 27, 2010 3:39 am 
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Agent Scooter XXX wrote:
RobotOnTheToilet wrote:
I just love how the mere mention of Palin or Beck causes the left to loose their minds.


The reason why all the liberal ilk such as Harvey and Mucous hate Palin and Beck...they stand for something that liberals don't comprehend nor know how to achieve such as family, honor, and personal achievement


Forgive me for not thinking the government should tell people how to raise their familes. Nor do I particularly want the Republicans breaking down my door and taking away my rights. If you hate freedom so much, I suggest you find another country, because this is not a country where we tell others how to live their lives.

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...... Plus the biggest one... preserving life greatly offends liberals.


Now your just talking bullshit. Lives are being lost in Iraq every day because of Bush. If we'd elected Mike Gravel (as we should have, but sadly the American people are far too stupid to realize that) we'd be out of Iraq (although to be fair his economic policies would have fucked the economy even more, but that doesn't worry me, since they would never have made it past congress).


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 27, 2010 3:42 am 
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shrike6 wrote:
Mucous wrote:
RobotOnTheToilet wrote:

WOW! Life is too short to even start a list. I don't know who is worse, him or Jimmy Carter.

Lets see. There is a war raging, over 18 % unemployment, the gulf is a mess, the stock market is about to crash and the world is destabilizing. But our clam bag of a President decides to take a sixth vacation this year. At least when he is playing golf he can't moist up the country any further.


That's laziness, not treason.


Almost as lazy as saying someone is committing treason for basing actions on what the world's intelligence agencies thought were true at the time.


Not according to the weapons inspectors, who said that the Iraqi government was indeed cooperating reasonably well. Bush basically just brushed any counter-evidence aside, because he stood to profit from the invasion. And lets not even go into details like this:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... n-WMD.html
Quote:


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 27, 2010 3:57 am 
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And BTW, Scooter, I'm a libertarian you fucking idiot, not a liberal.


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 27, 2010 4:15 am 
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Mucous wrote:
shrike6 wrote:
[

Almost as lazy as saying someone is committing treason for basing actions on what the world's intelligence agencies thought were true at the time.


Not according to the weapons inspectors, who said that the Iraqi government was indeed cooperating reasonably well. Bush basically just brushed any counter-evidence aside, because he stood to profit from the invasion. And lets not even go into details like this:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... n-WMD.html
Quote:


Funny, didn't you just brush aside counter evidence? Are you going to charge yourself with treason as well?

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 27, 2010 4:52 am 
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Treason is when you actively work against your country, or try to aid its enemies.

Whatever else Bush was, he wasn't a traitor. I don't think he was as good a statesman as his father; but he wasn't guilty of treason.


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 27, 2010 9:43 am 
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HarveyMidnight wrote:
Treason is when you actively work against your country, or try to aid its enemies.

Whatever else Bush was, he wasn't a traitor. I don't think he was as good a statesman as his father; but he wasn't guilty of treason.


Then what would you call lying to the American people in a way that resulted in Thousands of American deaths (to say nothing of the Iraqi deaths)?


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 27, 2010 10:10 am 
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Another classic case of deflection.
An effort to justify the bad actions of one party by pointing instead to the supposed bad actions of another.

It is either a weak tactic, or a sloppy understanding of how to reason properly.

Lying could be treasonous, perjury, or simply telling lie.
Making a false claim that one believes to be true is quite a different matter, it is just being wrong.

Dismissing discussion about bad policy choices by Obama by looking into the past about "What Bush did!" does nothing to evaluate the merits of Obama's policy.
People who try to take the discussion down that path should shut up while adults are having a discussion.

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 27, 2010 12:38 pm 
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 27, 2010 2:50 pm 
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shrike6 wrote:
HarveyMidnight wrote:

No. No, it's not.

But I do sometimes wanna ask this... totally twistin' the subject around: Is Palin kinda like your guys' Gore? Do you gusy see her as this person who seemed like a solid, intelligent candidate, but who later really turned out to be an odd embarrassment?

Its hard for me to say Palin is in the category you put Gore in. Gore has always been (at least to me) about two things money and power. All his green initiatives have also been about enriching his pockets. Palin has always seemed like a normal person to me. I think she believes in what she believes and I can respect that. Yeah she's made some gaffes. She also seems to have embarassing family moments but if you or I were suddenly thrust into the spotlight I bet we would too. Plus I have seen some flashes of brillance out of her. Not so sure I would vote for her but I also think that the press doesnt do her justice either thanks in part to institutional sexism that was well on display during the 2008 election cycle. Journalists went hard after both her and Hillary IMO. Plus its kind of refreshing to see a common person despite her negatives instead of some ivy league educated politician bot run for elected office.

HarveyMidnight wrote:
I will own up one thing for you guys... I am really kinda glad Gore was NOT the President on Sep 11th. I am really kinda glad nobody has to swing in & 'tone down' any of the environmental policies he Gore administration might have heaped on us...

Even tho I do think more is needed for the environment--- and tho I am kinda glad Obama has an Iraq pullout plan; I don't know that I'd want to see what Gore's plan would have been for going in.

I've decided the White House is the last place you want to put an activist.


I agree with you the environment is important although I do not believe in the crock that is Global Warming. I think the biggest environmental threat to mankind is water pollution. I think we need to ensure that people have access to clean unpolluted drinkable water. I'm glad our troops are coming home at the same time I am worried that we may pulling out too soon and may end up with the same problems that pulled us into those areas in the first place. I would rather spend the extra time and do it right rather than having to go back in in 10-20 years.

I've been giving this somemore thought Harv. I'd say Mark Sanford and Charlie Crist to me would be characterized in the same lot as Gore IMO. Both for different reasons thats the way I see it.

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Last edited by shrike6 on Fri Aug 27, 2010 4:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 27, 2010 3:35 pm 
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Palin isn't so bad.

People who love to portray her as an idiot or a radical can't get basic facts about her positions straight most of the time.

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 27, 2010 6:24 pm 
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Mucous wrote:
HarveyMidnight wrote:
Treason is when you actively work against your country, or try to aid its enemies.

Whatever else Bush was, he wasn't a traitor. I don't think he was as good a statesman as his father; but he wasn't guilty of treason.


Then what would you call lying to the American people in a way that resulted in Thousands of American deaths (to say nothing of the Iraqi deaths)?



I don't agree that there were deliberate lies coming from the White House.


Now, I WILL say, I think Bush made a mistake & dropped the ball in Afghanistan.. THEY were the ones harboring the terrorists who attacked us, and they should have been Bush's main focus. I think Bush sidelined the war effort & went into Iraq too soon -- and the campaign in Afghanistan suffered as a result.


In hindsight, we know know Iraq was not as imminent a threat, and the US could really have made some inroads as a LEADER in that region, if we'd followed a slower timetable in Iraq.

Instead... we ticked off a lot of influential potential allies... and we let the 'big bad', Osama, get away.



But these are the strategic decisions of a Commander In Chief... who, when, & how to deploy -- And WHY... It was within his power to choose the way he did. I don't agree with the way he ran things, but I still don't see where he is guilty of treason.


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 28, 2010 2:08 am 
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Darth Marley wrote:
Mucous wrote:
At least he hasn't been able to get away with blatant treason yet. Unlike some past presidents (*cough*Bush*cough*).


No, treason is when one betrays their own country, like Obama.


You mean such as dropping the charges and releasing the terrorist that murdered 17 American sailors aboard the USS COLE ?

While at the same time bringing down a civil war to the state of Arizona with a lawsuite

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/co ... 0082700364

Quote:
The Obama administration has shelved the planned prosecution of Abd al-Rahim al-Nashiri, the alleged coordinator of the Oct. 2000 suicide attack on the USS Cole in Yemen, according to a court filing.



The decision at least temporarily scuttles what was supposed to be the signature trial of a major al-Qaeda figure under a reformed system of military commissions. And it comes practically on the eve of the 10th anniversary of the attack, which killed 17 sailors and wounded dozens when a boat packed with explosives ripped a hole in the side of the warship in the port of Aden."


I would call that treason against America.

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 28, 2010 11:16 am 
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This thread is rapidly approaching a Seldon Crisis.

The first one to mention the Nazis, or Hitler, loses.

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