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PostPosted: Fri May 29, 2009 4:15 am 
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Apparently.


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The revelation this month in GQ Magazine that Donald Rumsfeld as Defense Secretary embellished top-secret wartime memos with quotations from the Bible prompts a question. Why did he believe he could influence President Bush by that means?

The answer may lie in an alarming story about George Bush's Christian millenarian beliefs that has yet to come to light.

In 2003 while lobbying leaders to put together the Coalition of the Willing, President Bush spoke to France's President Jacques Chirac. Bush wove a story about how the Biblical creatures Gog and Magog were at work in the Middle East and how they must be defeated.

In Genesis and Ezekiel Gog and Magog are forces of the Apocalypse who are prophesied to come out of the north and destroy Israel unless stopped. The Book of Revelation took up the Old Testament prophesy:

"And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison, And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them."

Bush believed the time had now come for that battle, telling Chirac:

"This confrontation is willed by God, who wants to use this conflict to erase his people's enemies before a New Age begins".


The story of the conversation emerged only because the Elyse Palace, baffled by Bush's words, sought advice from Thomas Romer, a professor of theology at the University of Lausanne. Four years later, Romer gave an account in the September 2007 issue of the university's review, Allez savoir. The article apparently went unnoticed, although it was referred to in a French newspaper.

The story has now been confirmed by Chirac himself in a new book, published in France in March, by journalist Jean Claude Maurice. Chirac is said to have been stupefied and disturbed by Bush's invocation of Biblical prophesy to justify the war in Iraq and "wondered how someone could be so superficial and fanatical in their beliefs".

In the same year he spoke to Chirac, Bush had reportedly said to the Palestinian foreign minister that he was on "a mission from God" in launching the invasions of Iraq and Afghanistan and was receiving commands from the Lord.

There can be little doubt now that President Bush's reason for launching the war in Iraq was, for him, fundamentally religious. He was driven by his belief that the attack on Saddam's Iraq was the fulfilment of a Biblical prophesy in which he had been chosen to serve as the instrument of the Lord.

Many thousands of Americans and Iraqis have died in the campaign to defeat Gog and Magog. That the US President saw himself as the vehicle of God whose duty was to prevent the Apocalypse can only inflame suspicions across the Middle East that the United States is on a crusade against Islam.

There is a curious coda to this story. While a senior at Yale University George W. Bush was a member of the exclusive and secretive Skull & Bones society. His father, George H.W. Bush had also been a "Bonesman", as indeed had his father. Skull & Bones' initiates are assigned or take on nicknames. And what was George Bush Senior's nickname? "Magog".


http://www.alternet.org/story/140221/



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PostPosted: Fri May 29, 2009 6:04 am 
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Let us stipulate that millenarian beliefs are nutty and dangerous in world leaders, Bush or Ahmadinejad.

Mabye Bush is just a fan of The Blues Brothers.

Does this mean that the war on Iraq was a bad idea because Bush has nutty religious beliefs?
No.

And while I can understand European leaders being uneasy hearing such words from a U.S. president, I do not understand why all rational and educated people would fail to have a similar reaction to a leader who said nutty things about socialist economic policies, yet that happens all the damn time.

Are you as worried about Iran going nuclear as you were about bush having control of the U.S. military?

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PostPosted: Fri May 29, 2009 9:14 am 
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Darth Marley wrote:
Does this mean that the war on Iraq was a bad idea because Bush has nutty religious beliefs?
No.




Does this actually prove Bush has nutty religious beliefs, or is this more made up anti-Bush Kookery from the anti-Bush Kook club?

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PostPosted: Fri May 29, 2009 10:15 am 
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Well at least now RS doesn't have to worry about it being because of oil...

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PostPosted: Fri May 29, 2009 10:46 am 
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Yeah, this really shoots the oil conspiracy in the foot. Without any evidence he had to move on to the next fantasy. RS is the Mulder of the MB. Maybe the MB avatar gods could address this. :lol:

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PostPosted: Fri May 29, 2009 12:40 pm 
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RS Components wrote:
Apparently.

[Spock right eyebrow]Hmme...[/Spock right eyebrow]

But no visions of the Antichrist? Disappointing. Very disappointing.


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PostPosted: Fri May 29, 2009 2:40 pm 
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You guys obviously missed the first line of the piece....

Quote:
Donald Rumsfeld as Defense Secretary embellished top-secret wartime memos with quotations from the Bible prompts a question. Why did he believe he could influence President Bush by that means?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kUWIw3SF ... re=related


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PostPosted: Fri May 29, 2009 3:57 pm 
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RS Components wrote:
You guys obviously missed the first line of the piece....

Quote:
Donald Rumsfeld as Defense Secretary embellished top-secret wartime memos with quotations from the Bible prompts a question. Why did he believe he could influence President Bush by that means?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kUWIw3SF ... re=related


I didn't "miss" a damn thing, Cheneyhead.

Actually, Rummy signed off on cover sheets that someone else provided.

Now, how do YOU feel ablut Iranian nukes, given Ahmadinejad's poetry about the nobility of Iran becoming a "martyr nation?"

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PostPosted: Fri May 29, 2009 4:16 pm 
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Hey, all administrations are sock puppets.

Iranian nukes?

Welcome to the 21st western centaury. We've got more than you.


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PostPosted: Fri May 29, 2009 5:47 pm 
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What is the big deal about Bush liking to think in Christian apocalyptic terms if you give a pass to the Muslim eschatologists developing nukes?

Are you some kind of religious bigot, or is this just selective outrage?

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PostPosted: Fri May 29, 2009 6:07 pm 
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I was really really wanting to avoid this thread because of my past as a preacher and I didn't want to drag that out again on this board that is supposed to be a "fun" place, but seriously Darth, if the said article in question is what Bush really believes, then his theology is all wrong.

Quote:
"And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison, And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them."

Bush believed the time had now come for that battle, telling Chirac:

"This confrontation is willed by God, who wants to use this conflict to erase his people's enemies before a New Age begins".



The battle mentioned here does not take place until (if you choose to believe the Bible, which is up to you to decide) 1000 years after Christ returns. This battle is not Armegeddon. Armegeddon is the battle that will take place just before Christ returns, in fact Christ returns by stepping in the middle of it. If he didn't, mankind would end up obliterating himself off of the planet once and for all.

Granted, in the Bible there were King's who felt called by God to lead wars, but unlike Bush, those Kings went out into the battle with the men they sent out to fight.

If Bush was truly using this as a basis for going to war, then I would have to question his sanity. He based it on an erroneous interpretation of scripture, and that breeds the most dangerous minds.

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PostPosted: Fri May 29, 2009 6:19 pm 
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Also, here is another thought:

If it is true that Bush thought that by defeating Gog and Magog he could stop Armegeddon from happening, then that makes him really crazy.

If the Bible is a true and faithful book, which Bush seems to think it is, then Armegeddon is going to happen. If the Bible is true, then Armegeddon is a fact.

To be so megalomaniacal to believe you can stop what God has written in stone is just insane.

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PostPosted: Fri May 29, 2009 7:47 pm 
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Everyone is wrong about "biblical prophecy."

Early Christians made great effort to alter the Nativity narrative to conform to a 0th century misunderstanding of Jewish prophecy.
And there were various millenarians back then, which nutjobs have parroted every so oftern.

But particular misunderstandings of scripture is not the real point.
Bush does have an error filled theology.
And it doesn't matter nearly as much as the left siding with the bad guys.

And Cheneyheads like RS loving America's enemies. that is also the point.

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PostPosted: Fri May 29, 2009 8:18 pm 
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Darth Marley wrote:
Bush does have an error filled theology.
And it doesn't matter nearly as much as the left siding with the bad guys.

So it's less wrong to proceed dangerously with a misguided belief in religion than to side with our enemies, our enemies who are our enemies because they have a misguided belief in religion?

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PostPosted: Sat May 30, 2009 2:58 am 
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No.

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